Well orphan crow. You said it, you want to nit pick on that one exclusive sentence without taking into account any other sentence not just in the document or policy but within that same line of thought. You speak of legalise and the nuances of details should not be taken into account when you feel that Watchtower is at fault, but that is exactly what you are doing, you are focusing on a single, not sentence but a single phrase within a multi-page policy that has been written for a worldwide policy with many different circustances.
Richard Oliver
JoinedPosts by Richard Oliver
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347
ARC - Case Study 54 - All Exhibits have been released
by jwleaks inall exhibits for case study 54, jehovah's witnesses and watchtower, have been released by the arc.. http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/exhibits/10908a67-70c5-4103-94cc-dac096fdb585/case-study-54,-march-2017,-sydney.
exhibit list.
joint statement of o'brien and spinks.
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347
ARC - Case Study 54 - All Exhibits have been released
by jwleaks inall exhibits for case study 54, jehovah's witnesses and watchtower, have been released by the arc.. http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/exhibits/10908a67-70c5-4103-94cc-dac096fdb585/case-study-54,-march-2017,-sydney.
exhibit list.
joint statement of o'brien and spinks.
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Richard Oliver
Nor did you also bring out the other two bullet points in that section. Again it mainly is referring to the morality of the issue and not the legality of the issue.
Sexual misconduct involving only minors: Such conduct is not generally considered by the congregation as child sexual abuse. However, cases in which one minor is significantly older than the other or in which the younger minor was not a willing participant or in which one minor has been involved with multiple minors must be carefully evaluated. In certain cases, branch-imposed restrictions may still be warranted.
• Age of the accused and age of the victim: The Service Desk needs to consider the ages of both the accused and the victim. From a legal standpoint, the definition of adult varies according to the country or area in which one lives. In some countries, one is viewed as an adult when he reaches 18 years of age. The Bible does not specify an age when one reaches adulthood. From a Scriptural standpoint, cases in which the minor and the adult are close in age and the minor was a willing participant may be viewed differently than cases in which the adult is significantly older than the minor.
NO the only portion that it speaks of the legality is when it states:
From a legal standpoint, the definition of adult varies according to the country or area in which one lives. In some countries, one is viewed as an adult when he reaches 18 years of age.
Or do you feel that that the whole section is speaking of legal issues, so in that case elders should report two under consenting teens who have sex with each other to the authorities, because this section is speaking of the legal definition of child abuse and not a moral or scriptural issue.
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ARC - Case Study 54 - All Exhibits have been released
by jwleaks inall exhibits for case study 54, jehovah's witnesses and watchtower, have been released by the arc.. http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/exhibits/10908a67-70c5-4103-94cc-dac096fdb585/case-study-54,-march-2017,-sydney.
exhibit list.
joint statement of o'brien and spinks.
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Richard Oliver
OC you just want to ignore everything else and focus on that one sentence. The rest of that statement is:
it is still a serious violation of Jehovah’s standards. A person involved in viewing child pornography should be strongly counseled. Depending on the frequency and the extent of his viewing, he could be subject to congregation judicial action. In such cases, the Service Department may decide that branch-imposed restrictions are warranted.
Also point 13 of the Service Department Guildlines state:
13. Restrictions are imposed when (1) a congregation judicial committee determines that one guilty of child sexual abuse is repentant and will remain in the congregation, (2) one disfellowshipped for child sexual abuse is reinstated, (3) when an unbaptized publisher or a baptized member of the congregation who denies an accusation of child sexual abuse is convicted by the secular authorities, or (4) one viewed as a child molester by the community or the congregation becomes a publisher or becomes a baptized member of the congregation. In all of these situations, as long as he is viewed negatively by the victim, the victim’s family, the congregation, the elders, or the community, the branch office must impose restrictions on his activity in the congregation and in the field ministry.—Gal. 6:7.
So even though there is that statement. If viewing child pornography is illegal for a person in that country and they are convicted of it, regardless of how the congregation sees it, restrictions will still be imposed by the branch office against that person. The restrictions are also spelled out in both documents, Guildilines for Service Departments and in the Body of Elders Letter Protecting minors from abuse.
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ARC - Case Study 54 - All Exhibits have been released
by jwleaks inall exhibits for case study 54, jehovah's witnesses and watchtower, have been released by the arc.. http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/exhibits/10908a67-70c5-4103-94cc-dac096fdb585/case-study-54,-march-2017,-sydney.
exhibit list.
joint statement of o'brien and spinks.
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Richard Oliver
From a scriptural standpoint it stated that. But from a legal point of view and when it must be reported is based on the definition at the beginning of the letter to body of elders which included child pornography. It states there the law may view it as child abuse and would be included in what is considered a reportable act.
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347
ARC - Case Study 54 - All Exhibits have been released
by jwleaks inall exhibits for case study 54, jehovah's witnesses and watchtower, have been released by the arc.. http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/exhibits/10908a67-70c5-4103-94cc-dac096fdb585/case-study-54,-march-2017,-sydney.
exhibit list.
joint statement of o'brien and spinks.
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Richard Oliver
Diognester. The paragraph does include the act of sexting but it also says child pornography and those that view it.
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ARC - Case Study 54 - All Exhibits have been released
by jwleaks inall exhibits for case study 54, jehovah's witnesses and watchtower, have been released by the arc.. http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/exhibits/10908a67-70c5-4103-94cc-dac096fdb585/case-study-54,-march-2017,-sydney.
exhibit list.
joint statement of o'brien and spinks.
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Richard Oliver
Where in that paragraph does it differentiate between a witness child and a worldly child. In fact further in that document it states it doesn't matter if the abuser is a witness or not and if the victim or the abuser is part of the congregation. So are you adding to those statements that isn't there.
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ARC - Case Study 54 - All Exhibits have been released
by jwleaks inall exhibits for case study 54, jehovah's witnesses and watchtower, have been released by the arc.. http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/exhibits/10908a67-70c5-4103-94cc-dac096fdb585/case-study-54,-march-2017,-sydney.
exhibit list.
joint statement of o'brien and spinks.
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Richard Oliver
So did anyone who kept on saying that Watchtower new policy just says that it is not a crime. Did anyone actually read the full policy, which includes the letter to the body of elders, the guidelines for service desks and the safeguarding policy for Jehovah's Witnesses in Australia. Or was it just that you read that one part and ended your search there.
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347
ARC - Case Study 54 - All Exhibits have been released
by jwleaks inall exhibits for case study 54, jehovah's witnesses and watchtower, have been released by the arc.. http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/exhibits/10908a67-70c5-4103-94cc-dac096fdb585/case-study-54,-march-2017,-sydney.
exhibit list.
joint statement of o'brien and spinks.
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Richard Oliver
According to the laws in the US if a young couple who are both under the age of 18 send naked pictures of each other, by the law they have distributed child pornography and is subject to arrest, prosecution, fines/imprisonment and registration as a sex offender. I was pointing out that the law has grey areas that must be taken into consideration. It is not a simple matter but is much more complex.
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ARC - Case Study 54 - All Exhibits have been released
by jwleaks inall exhibits for case study 54, jehovah's witnesses and watchtower, have been released by the arc.. http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/exhibits/10908a67-70c5-4103-94cc-dac096fdb585/case-study-54,-march-2017,-sydney.
exhibit list.
joint statement of o'brien and spinks.
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Richard Oliver
Yeah pointing out facts that is such a lawyer thing to do. And that is how you obfuscate things by bringing out facts. Or by bringing out what the law actually says and not what it should say when speaking about a legal matter.
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ARC - Case Study 54 - All Exhibits have been released
by jwleaks inall exhibits for case study 54, jehovah's witnesses and watchtower, have been released by the arc.. http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/exhibits/10908a67-70c5-4103-94cc-dac096fdb585/case-study-54,-march-2017,-sydney.
exhibit list.
joint statement of o'brien and spinks.
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Richard Oliver
So Orphan Crow. I showed you that Watchtower does acknowledge that Child Abuse can include that of child pornography and in fact more than child pornography but sexting with a minor. Does that mean that your argument falls flat in the water and doesn't leave the gate.